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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2018 11:10 am 
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Xequecal wrote:
I agree there should be some kind of process one should be required to go through so one can't just change gender daily on a whim, but the guidelines define it as totally immutable and must be specified at or before birth. Even if you're going to shut transgender people out, people who are physically intersex do exist. Do they just get one picked for them and then have to live with whatever their doctor/parents picked?


There is a great graphic in this article that shows some of the genetic variation involved: https://www.scientificamerican.com/arti ... rmination/

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 Post subject: Re: Abortion
PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2018 4:24 pm 
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Xequecal wrote:
Now that Trump is proposing to define gender at birth, do you still think this is the case? Even some extremely conservative countries that prohibit gay marriage like South Korea allow people to gender transition.

Relatively speaking, Trump's voter base is substantially more conservative on social issues than even Bush's. Bush made a coalition out of evangelicals plus pro-business voters. The latter don't care much about social issues. Trump's core is evangelicals and populists, which on social issues are both hard right. He's trying to garner additional support from blacks and union members, both of which are also social conservatives. Trump's voter base is nearly 100% extreme social conservatives that tend to respond violently to even centrist social stances. Just today, David French (A National Review writer, and definitely not a leftist) tweeted that a minority of Trump supporters are racist and now his kids are getting death threats. Daniel Frum and Jake Tapper have had similar harassment campaigns. I don't really see the Supreme Court ignoring this on precedent alone.


Your characterizations of the President's voter based are skewed at best, outright delusional at worst.

I know many people who voted for Trump who don't give a **** what gender you want to assign to yourself, nor do they care if you have a homosexual relationship. What they do want and do give a **** about is they are tired of having the left push their ideology on others. Most of them believe "live and let live, just do it in your own space and don't force me to think of it as natural." None of them have reacted violently to anything the left has done or said. Most of us just shake our heads because we find it hard to believe people can be that stupid and / or hypocritical.

I find it laughable that you believe the SC will act on something because someone was harassed. Until the First and Second Amendments are overturned, which ain't happening, harassment is just that, harassment. Just because a prominent figure doesn't like the way they're treated is not the basis of our form of government or laws.

Your generally sweeping pronouncements about those who voted for Trump are tiresome.

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 Post subject: Re: Abortion
PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2018 6:23 pm 
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Kairtane wrote:
What they do want and do give a **** about is they are tired of having the left push their ideology on others.

It's not "others", it's conservatives that they target.

That there's the hypocrisy - Clinton makes a joke that "they all look alike" and crickets from the media, but had a conservative said the same thing, it would have caused a brouhaha on the evening news. Where's the sanctimonious lectures? Where's the calls of "racism"?

crickets

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 Post subject: Re: Abortion
PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2018 4:04 pm 
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Taskiss wrote:
Kairtane wrote:
What they do want and do give a **** about is they are tired of having the left push their ideology on others.

It's not "others", it's conservatives that they target.

That there's the hypocrisy - Clinton makes a joke that "they all look alike" and crickets from the media, but had a conservative said the same thing, it would have caused a brouhaha on the evening news. Where's the sanctimonious lectures? Where's the calls of "racism"?

crickets


I stand corrected, you're quite right. And the hypocrisy extends to anyone on the left; Maxine Waters, Cory Booker, Diane Feinstein, and their poster girls Nancy Pelosi and Elizabeth Warren.

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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2018 9:05 pm 
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Serienya wrote:
Xequecal wrote:
I agree there should be some kind of process one should be required to go through so one can't just change gender daily on a whim, but the guidelines define it as totally immutable and must be specified at or before birth. Even if you're going to shut transgender people out, people who are physically intersex do exist. Do they just get one picked for them and then have to live with whatever their doctor/parents picked?


There is a great graphic in this article that shows some of the genetic variation involved: https://www.scientificamerican.com/arti ... rmination/

The problem I have with these arguments is they are treating genetic or congenital aberrations as evidence that our species evolved as a spectrum of genders, which is kinda ridiculous. People with congenital adrenal hyperplasia, for example, will make less of some hormones which affects the development of sexual characteristics. These people go on to have biological impairments as a result of the hormone imbalances that result, not to mention more difficulty procreating. That we can call that normal seems contrary to the evolution and fitness of our species. And yeah, historically, it has sucked that somebody with CAH could be born and have their sex misjudged based on phenotype. But now we can test for fetal genotype in maternal blood and we can know what their genes say they are.

The folks with Klinefelter's or Turner's would seem to have a legitimate claim that their genes take them out of the male/female genotype binary. But I haven't gotten the sense those populations are the ones wanting their sex determined as "intersex."

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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2018 9:31 pm 
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TheRiov wrote:
Screeling wrote:
That aside, I don't understand how we can make laws to protect a class of individuals when constituents of said class can change their status by a simple mental decision alone. Using the same arguments I'm seeing putting forth, I don't understand what would preclude me from claiming a residency program is racist for not hiring me because I choose to identify as an ethnic minority now.


We do the same for religion... I can decide tomorrow I'm Catholic, Muslim, or Pastafarian. Businesses can claim they don't want to provide health insurance for whatever procedures because it conflicts with their religious beliefs. Hospitals can deny certain procedures for the same reasons.

So far as I understand it (and admittedly I don't know for sure), the protections for religion were put in place to prevent compelling people to have to violate their conscience. Catholic hospitals don't permit the OB/GYN service to do abortions because it violates their conscience telling them it is murder of the unborn, except in cases where the mother's life is in jeopardy. They provide referrals to providers who will perform this service, though. Similarly for businesses with insurance, except employees can opt to purchase different insurance that does cover what the employee wants.

Transgender people who have not undergone the surgery are making a claim they are something when physically they are not. And in both cases, male or female, those are already protected classes. So now we're arguing over discrimination against a behavior (not outlawed) or discrimination based on sex (sexist discrimination is already illegal). It seems to me, if the leftists really want to pursue this, they should amend the law (or make a new one) to make the behavior of transgenderism (without the surgery) protected.

Edit: Sorry - took me a while to get settled. Only my first week here in Indiana and the rotation and life here have just been an absolute crap-show for me.

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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2018 10:15 pm 
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Screeling wrote:
they should amend the law (or make a new one)

This is where I part ways with so many progressive opinions... Make a law. Change a law. Unfortunately they seek to use the judicial or the court of public opinion when they should be using the legislative branch to further their causes.

I hear progressives say that it takes too long, or that it’s the tyranny of the masses, etc, to make changes as excuses to bypass that critical step. A stroke of a pen or a ruling in any court other than the USSC then deals them a setback. Go figure.

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