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PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 8:32 pm 
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I've made it clear I think the idea of armed teachers in schools is a terrible idea. I'm sure most of you think that my objection is primarily based on some dogmatic "guns = bad" philosophy. The fact of the matter is I understand the need for armed law enforcement, and even the use of a firearm in the defense of self and others.
My objection to arming teachers (and generically "everyone/anyone") is more about the security of the space itself. While carrying a weapon, the owner of that weapon must be constantly aware of their body, and not present the opportunity for them to be disarmed or relieved of their weapon. It requires an extra level of training that police officers are given. The fact of the matter is that kids (up to and including teens and even early twenty-somethings) make terrible decisions, they're impulsive, and do not exercise good judgement. They're ruled by passions which often erupt into violence. Adding weapons to that mix will turn thousands of fistfights into shootings. Furthermore it creates an atmosphere that is anti-learning. It turns classrooms into a police state. And it pulls teachers focus from where it should be, educating students, and means at all times they must be aware of their body, their sidearm.


So how's this for a possible compromise:

Firearms be distributed much like defibrillators (obviously with FAR higher security on them) -- kept in secure bins with passcodes that only trained and approved faculty are given. Removal of any weapon would trigger a building-wide alarm and should only be in the case of an active-shooter situation. Weapons, their lockers, etc would be subject to monthly inspection.

This gets around the problem of having guns part of the learning environment, removes the need for teachers to be constantly on guard from having a weapon taken from them, and prevents or at least makes far more difficult, the possibility of some teenager acting in a crime of passion and grabbing a weapon from a guard.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 12:45 am 
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TheRiov wrote:
I've made it clear I think the idea of armed teachers in schools is a terrible idea. I'm sure most of you think that my objection is primarily based on some dogmatic "guns = bad" philosophy. The fact of the matter is I understand the need for armed law enforcement, and even the use of a firearm in the defense of self and others.
My objection to arming teachers (and generically "everyone/anyone") is more about the security of the space itself. While carrying a weapon, the owner of that weapon must be constantly aware of their body, and not present the opportunity for them to be disarmed or relieved of their weapon. It requires an extra level of training that police officers are given. The fact of the matter is that kids (up to and including teens and even early twenty-somethings) make terrible decisions, they're impulsive, and do not exercise good judgement. They're ruled by passions which often erupt into violence. Adding weapons to that mix will turn thousands of fistfights into shootings. Furthermore it creates an atmosphere that is anti-learning. It turns classrooms into a police state. And it pulls teachers focus from where it should be, educating students, and means at all times they must be aware of their body, their sidearm.


So how's this for a possible compromise:

Firearms be distributed much like defibrillators (obviously with FAR higher security on them) -- kept in secure bins with passcodes that only trained and approved faculty are given. Removal of any weapon would trigger a building-wide alarm and should only be in the case of an active-shooter situation. Weapons, their lockers, etc would be subject to monthly inspection.

This gets around the problem of having guns part of the learning environment, removes the need for teachers to be constantly on guard from having a weapon taken from them, and prevents or at least makes far more difficult, the possibility of some teenager acting in a crime of passion and grabbing a weapon from a guard.


You wildly overestimate the volatility of teenagers and the difficulty of weapon retention training.

The real problem with arming teachers is that most teachers are probably unwilling to shoot someone, and teachers did not sign up for that in the first place. The fact is that nothing really needs to be done. School shootings are more of a social problem for the media behavior they cause than in terms of the number of deaths.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 11:54 pm 
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Yeah, it's a dumb solution. Like, stop making schools into prisons that make kids wanna escape. Or a number of other things that make more sense. dafuq.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 11:41 am 
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Laws should be changed to allow those teachers who desire to have a gun in the classroom to do so. After all necessary training has been completed, of course.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 1:00 pm 
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Thus the term “compromise”

I (and most the non NRA nutjobs out there) reject pretty much any attempt to have teachers carry firearms (or knives, clubs, garrote, bolas, glaives, katana, rapiers, bill-bill-hooks etc so DE doesn’t think I’m unfairly targeting guns) while teaching class. These are fundamental opposed goals.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 5:38 pm 
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TheRiov wrote:
Thus the term “compromise”

I (and most the non NRA nutjobs out there) reject pretty much any attempt to have teachers carry firearms (or knives, clubs, garrote, bolas, glaives, katana, rapiers, bill-bill-hooks etc so DE doesn’t think I’m unfairly targeting guns) while teaching class. These are fundamental opposed goals.


How are they fundamentally opposed?

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 9:12 pm 
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Considering the political leaning of many teachers, most of them probably don't want to, so it's a moot point. IMO, it would be a risk most teachers, even if they didn't have the irrational fear of guns that many lefties have, would be willing to take on. YMMV.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 8:28 pm 
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Stop making schools mandatory.

90% of the problem is solved.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 11:10 pm 
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Elmarnieh wrote:
Stop making schools mandatory.

90% of the problem is solved.


Schools actually aren't mandatory. Schooling is. We just need to let people take their money elsewhere when they take their kids elsewhere and stop pretending there's any reason whatsoever to protect public education or teacher's unions. Really, we just can't crap on teachers hard enough. The vast majority are trash and if they quit we might be able to properly pay the ones that really want to do the job.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 2:24 am 
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Diamondeye wrote:
Elmarnieh wrote:
Stop making schools mandatory.

90% of the problem is solved.


Schools actually aren't mandatory. Schooling is. We just need to let people take their money elsewhere when they take their kids elsewhere and stop pretending there's any reason whatsoever to protect public education or teacher's unions. Really, we just can't crap on teachers hard enough. The vast majority are trash and if they quit we might be able to properly pay the ones that really want to do the job.

The public school system is the cause of a lot of problems. They are run like prison systems and cater to girls.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 6:39 pm 
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TheRiov wrote:
I've made it clear I think the idea of armed teachers in schools is a terrible idea. I'm sure most of you think that my objection is primarily based on some dogmatic "guns = bad" philosophy. The fact of the matter is I understand the need for armed law enforcement, and even the use of a firearm in the defense of self and others.
My objection to arming teachers (and generically "everyone/anyone") is more about the security of the space itself. While carrying a weapon, the owner of that weapon must be constantly aware of their body, and not present the opportunity for them to be disarmed or relieved of their weapon. It requires an extra level of training that police officers are given. The fact of the matter is that kids (up to and including teens and even early twenty-somethings) make terrible decisions, they're impulsive, and do not exercise good judgement. They're ruled by passions which often erupt into violence. Adding weapons to that mix will turn thousands of fistfights into shootings. Furthermore it creates an atmosphere that is anti-learning. It turns classrooms into a police state. And it pulls teachers focus from where it should be, educating students, and means at all times they must be aware of their body, their sidearm.


So how's this for a possible compromise:

Firearms be distributed much like defibrillators (obviously with FAR higher security on them) -- kept in secure bins with passcodes that only trained and approved faculty are given. Removal of any weapon would trigger a building-wide alarm and should only be in the case of an active-shooter situation. Weapons, their lockers, etc would be subject to monthly inspection.

This gets around the problem of having guns part of the learning environment, removes the need for teachers to be constantly on guard from having a weapon taken from them, and prevents or at least makes far more difficult, the possibility of some teenager acting in a crime of passion and grabbing a weapon from a guard.


I was with you until the bold. None of that will occur. That seems to have come out of nowhere.

If teachers want to carry, and are willing to demonstrate proper training, have at it. Having a school armory is way overkill, calls attention to it, and could only create problems. Not knowing if/how many teachers are armed is the point. Deterrence, with a side of potential armed protection.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 8:51 pm 
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Elmarnieh wrote:
Stop making schools mandatory.

90% of the problem is solved.

What a shock. The radical libertarian wants a uneducated populace. It’s much easier to sell your agenda to those who don’t know history.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 11:12 pm 
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Wwen wrote:
Diamondeye wrote:
Elmarnieh wrote:
Stop making schools mandatory.

90% of the problem is solved.


Schools actually aren't mandatory. Schooling is. We just need to let people take their money elsewhere when they take their kids elsewhere and stop pretending there's any reason whatsoever to protect public education or teacher's unions. Really, we just can't crap on teachers hard enough. The vast majority are trash and if they quit we might be able to properly pay the ones that really want to do the job.

The public school system is the cause of a lot of problems. They are run like prison systems and cater to girls.


It's pretty much inevitable that any co-ed school is going to discriminate against one gender or the other. The only real solution to this is to seperate schools by gender. The majority of top performing private prep schools are either all boys or all girls for pretty much exactly this reason.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 6:40 pm 
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TheRiov wrote:
Elmarnieh wrote:
Stop making schools mandatory.

90% of the problem is solved.

What a shock. The radical libertarian wants a uneducated populace. It’s much easier to sell your agenda to those who don’t know history.



How is it possible to continue to maintain your micron-narrow view, despite all the evidence forcing it to widen, that to be against a thing done in a public manner via threat of violence means to not want that thing done at all?

Do you have to take lessons on how to stay willfuly ignorant or are you blessed with a supernaturally powerful form of pride in your ignorance?

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