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 Post subject: Re: Abortion
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2018 2:42 pm 
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Taskiss wrote:
This is why the liberal narrative about conservatives falls to ****. To a conservative, a thing is what it is. It can't change what it is unless that change is part of the pattern that thing has been cast from.

Every human has the same inalienable rights that I do, and because that mass of cells, from the moment the first cells divided, will become just like me unless it's killed, it is unequivocally a human and has the right to be alive.

Now, you can kill it as is your right (at least for today), but don't tip-toe about the truth. Do so and you're killing an innocent human. It's not the liberals that "think of the children", it's the conservatives. Liberals conjugate truth to squeeze out the essence of their agenda by any means possible. You're sanctioning murder of innocent citizens who are as legally protected by the state from all others at the point of conception as I am, from everyone except their mother and any butcher she may employ.

And you can call a penis a vagina all you want, as you and yours are seemingly so ready to do. You can re-define any word you want, and try to hide from the truth. But, why? Don't try to sugar coat it with bull ****. You can't. Embrace your inner god-self, the one you put before all others, the one that allows you to decide on life and death of innocents. The one that lets you sleep after making the decision that you can kill innocents while you yourself remain innocent.


Translation: You're going to declare yourself right instead of actually discussing specific points. Anyone who disagrees with you is evil.


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 Post subject: Re: Abortion
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2018 3:42 pm 
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TheRiov wrote:
Taskiss wrote:
This is why the liberal narrative about conservatives falls to ****. To a conservative, a thing is what it is. It can't change what it is unless that change is part of the pattern that thing has been cast from.

Every human has the same inalienable rights that I do, and because that mass of cells, from the moment the first cells divided, will become just like me unless it's killed, it is unequivocally a human and has the right to be alive.

Now, you can kill it as is your right (at least for today), but don't tip-toe about the truth. Do so and you're killing an innocent human. It's not the liberals that "think of the children", it's the conservatives. Liberals conjugate truth to squeeze out the essence of their agenda by any means possible. You're sanctioning murder of innocent citizens who are as legally protected by the state from all others at the point of conception as I am, from everyone except their mother and any butcher she may employ.

And you can call a penis a vagina all you want, as you and yours are seemingly so ready to do. You can re-define any word you want, and try to hide from the truth. But, why? Don't try to sugar coat it with bull ****. You can't. Embrace your inner god-self, the one you put before all others, the one that allows you to decide on life and death of innocents. The one that lets you sleep after making the decision that you can kill innocents while you yourself remain innocent.


Translation: You're going to declare yourself right instead of actually discussing specific points. Anyone who disagrees with you is evil.


Could you cite the positions that support your argument that have not already been shown to invalid? I can't find any.

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 Post subject: Re: Abortion
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 12:35 pm 
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TheRiov wrote:
Translation: You're going to declare yourself right instead of actually discussing specific points. Anyone who disagrees with you is evil.

Not at all. You outlined your position and presented the salient evidence you felt supported your position.

I did the same for my position.

But you're correct, it's pretty clear that the facts are obviously in my favor. I don't rely on any bullshit definitions, I stick to the basics and refuse to let you frame the issue as some complex biological conundrum, because it's not. It's a binary conclusion of life or death, whether a human is allowed to mature as irrefutable evidence of it's humanity or is declared to be some type of lesser member of humanity and destroyed.

You really can't argue with the basic logic from a scientific view, the only personal opinion I interjected in the outline of my position that can be disputed in the least is the assertion that humans have an inalienable right to be alive. Otherwise, I just presented facts - if dear ol' mom doesn't have it ripped to pieces, in the same bit of time and effort that you yourself had to have to come to your conclusions and present them, the statistical majority of fetus would be capable of doing the same. We're all equal, our species is just a collection of human life forms on an appointed spot on a timeline, except you've decided that you're just a little more equal... so much more equal as to be judge, jury and in cahoots with the executioner.

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 Post subject: Re: Abortion
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 2:32 pm 
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Elmarnieh wrote:
Could you cite the positions that support your argument that have not already been shown to invalid? I can't find any.


Which arguments are you talking about? I've countered or rejected as non-factual nearly every statement opposed to my own position. Those that I have not, I've established as a judgement call that depends on your starting definitions which we fundamentally disagree on.


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 Post subject: Re: Abortion
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 5:07 pm 
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Taskiss wrote:
TheRiov wrote:
Translation: You're going to declare yourself right instead of actually discussing specific points. Anyone who disagrees with you is evil.

Not at all. You outlined your position and presented the salient evidence you felt supported your position.

I did the same for my position.

You've presented nothing other than to strut around saying "NO ITS A BABY!" and then throw out some ad hominims. In fact all your 'settled science' (which no one but me has actually tried to provide here) makes no statements about what is a human being at all simply because those questions are not what science does. Science can determine if something happens, how something happens, and make predictions about it, but questions of morality are generally outside the scope. Such questions are better in the hands of philosophers, ethicists, and religious scholars.

All your strutting around demanding that its abortion is wrong and trying to pretend only some small, morally deficient minority of the population agrees with me is just a smokescreen. The fact of the matter is that the MAJORITY of the population of the US agrees with my position.

(http://www.pewforum.org/fact-sheet/publ ... -abortion/)

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But you're correct, it's pretty clear that the facts are obviously in my favor.


Yeah. I didn't say anything of the kind. You have not cited any facts. You've cited opinions. That's okay. You're in good company.
http://thehill.com/homenews/media/39287 ... om-opinion

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I also I don't rely on any bullshit definitions, I stick to the basics and refuse to let you frame the issue as some complex biological conundrum, because it's not. It's a binary conclusion of life or death, whether a human is allowed to mature as irrefutable evidence of it's humanity or is declared to be some type of lesser member of humanity and destroyed.


Your inability to see shades of gray, nuance or subtlety in logic is not, in any way, my failing.

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You really can't argue with the basic logic from a scientific view


What science? You have NFC what you're talking about. You've made a bald assertion with no support and claim there's some science behind it.

Quote:
, the only personal opinion I interjected in the outline of my position that can be disputed in the least is the assertion that humans have an inalienable right to be alive. Otherwise, I just presented facts - if dear ol' mom doesn't have it ripped to pieces, in the same bit of time and effort that you yourself had to have to come to your conclusions and present them, the statistical majority of fetus would be capable of doing the same. We're all equal, our species is just a collection of human life forms on an appointed spot on a timeline, except you've decided that you're just a little more equal... so much more equal as to be judge, jury and in cahoots with the executioner.


You really just can't even begin to tell the difference between a fact and an opinion, can you?

I mean not even a little.

Here's a hint: just because something is "true" in your head, doesnt make it a fact.


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 Post subject: Re: Abortion
PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 9:28 am 
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TheRiov wrote:
You really just can't even begin to tell the difference between a fact and an opinion, can you?

You, I, and every human that ever lived, started our life journey the moment our unique DNA presented itself shortly after fertilization and our biological markers can be backtracked exactly to that moment when that new, totally unique human genome formed.

That's a fact.

The only way to prevent that human life from maturing to the point where it can declare "I think, therefor I am" is to kill it, plus or minus the statistical viability of humans at that stage of life.

That too is a fact.

Your "personhood" criteria for determining the worthiness of the privilege of life is crap.

That is an opinion based on the totally crap piece of criteria it is.

Life is life, and you try to justify the killing of a member of the same species as yourself by deprecating it's humanity through bullshit made up criteria that refuses to address the basic fact that, no matter what crap you spout, you're supporting the killing a member of your same species. Not that I care, you can support whatever you want. You just lose any ability to claim moral superiority over any other baby killer, much less those that truly care about human life.

There's only one real question - do you believe that all human's are equal, and they have a right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness? Well, obviously you don't if you're willing to kill innocents. Hell, if you can rationalize that, you can talk yourself into believing anything.

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 Post subject: Re: Abortion
PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2018 11:16 am 
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TheRiov wrote:
You've presented nothing other than to strut around saying "NO ITS A BABY!" and then throw out some ad hominims. In fact all your 'settled science' (which no one but me has actually tried to provide here) makes no statements about what is a human being at all simply because those questions are not what science does. Science can determine if something happens, how something happens, and make predictions about it, but questions of morality are generally outside the scope. Such questions are better in the hands of philosophers, ethicists, and religious scholars.


It's deeply ironic that you accuse Taskiss of just 'declaring himself right', then turn around and admit its not a factual question. This is the exact same thing you do when calling people "racists" then citing so-called "experts on racism" (hint: there is no such thing).

Taskiss may not be making the most sophisticated argument ever, but he's definitely holding up a mirror not only to you but to the way the left feels it's entitled to behave towards people on the right pretty much everywhere. Don't like what you see, do you?

The next time you want to sling terms like "racist" around, remember that. You're complaining about your own behavior.

As for the garbage study about not telling fact from opinion, based on the statements they used the survey authors weren't 100% sure themselves, and didn't think it was important to explain that they were asking whether a statement was fact or opinion rather than asking if a factual statement was correct or not. An incorrect factual statement is still not an opinion.

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 Post subject: Re: Abortion
PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 12:00 pm 
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Diamondeye wrote:
Taskiss may not be making the most sophisticated argument ever

It's not designed to be sophisticated. It's designed mainly as a counterpoint to the liberal embrace and politicalization of "the children of gun violence" as a marketable commodity to further their goal of the erosion of the 2nd. as well as using "children taken from their parents" to advance open border agendas - I'm just trying to emulate their argumentative technique and expose that blatant hypocrisy. They've got a glass house, I throw rocks. It's a nuanced kinda thing, I don't like playing that game but I'm not the one that dragged kids into it. Liberals don't care about kids, they care about agendas, and their attitude towards abortion is proof. So...

accuse accuse accuse. never stop. they're bad, it's obvious. any right thinking person would agree with me. think of the children and if you REALLY think of the children, then you wouldn't ...

yeah, I can do that all day. it's easier when you finally know you're in a war for the future, not a reasonable discussion

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