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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 2:05 am 
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Midgen wrote:
Yea, I think those were removed before I was high enough level to understand what it was all about...


Yeah it was removed within a few months of gong live. Before, blue and green were restricted to non-dark side alignments and red was restricted to non-light side alignments. So if you wanted to use both colors, you had to remain neutral.

Now, my light-sided jedi is dual wielding blue and red sabers.

The whole restriction was fairly dumb, likely because there were multiple EU explanations for it. But it really boiled down to this: the very first Sith Lord (Exar Kun) wielded a blue saber. And Darth Vader wielded one when he first fought Kenobi (he was full-on sith at that point).

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 11:57 am 
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I have a dream that one day little Jedi boys and little Sith girls will be judged not by the color of their lightsabers, but by the content of their character.

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 Post subject: Re: Elder Scrolls Online
PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 12:20 pm 
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Because there's not an entire forum for talking about SW:TOR or anything! :mrgreen: ;) j/k

Anyhow, Megaserver: Evidently, it is not "everyone is on the same server" but rather, you have a bunch of different instances of the game, all of which are interlinked. When you log in, the game will prioritize the instance your guildmates are in, then your friends list, then people whose playstyles correspond to your preferences as indicated in an optional questionairre at character creation. I don't know if there's an option to change those preferences later, but I imagine it's going to be available.

As far as PVP goes, you'll be assigned to a "campaign", and you'll fight for your side in that campaign for its duration. It will be possible, but not easy, to switch campaigns. The top player in pvp of the most successful Alliance across all campaigns will be Emperor; then everyone else (from the other alliances) tries to knock him down. The campaigns will, I gathered, reset every month or so, and even there it's not a "hard" reset; you won't be halfway through a keep battle and "poof" it reverts to start just because it's midnight on changeover day. This is a few hundred years before Tiber Septim, so all the pretenders to the throne will still eventually get shunted aside.

You won't get to go adventure in provinces not belonging to other alliances. This is for 3 reasons: A) PRovinces will already be at least comparable to Skyrim in that game; there's plenty of room, plus Cyrodill is huge B) The entire game is not one endless pvp area and we don't need gankers invading people's PVE and C) from a lore perspective, it's about taking the throne and forcing the other factions to acknowledge your Emperor; they are a lot more likely to do that if they are only losing armies on a foreign battlefield rather than having their homes burned to the ground by invading nords/orcs/altmer/whatever.

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 Post subject: Re: Elder Scrolls Online
PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 1:43 pm 
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Diamondeye wrote:
You won't get to go adventure in provinces not belonging to other alliances.

Well, there goes my interest in the game. Once PvP factions dictate where I can and can't go, I'm done.

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 Post subject: Re: Elder Scrolls Online
PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 2:49 pm 
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I'm not entirely thrilled about it myself; actually it's one of the few design decisions I don't like so far.

That said, I am hoping that it will be a "this is the way it is initially" thing. If not.. well, I'll just have to make at least 2 alts, I guess, but I was planning to do that anyhow.

I also can be more forgiving of it, mainly because there does need to be a pvp system, and not one that just involves entering an "arena" or "battleground" for no apparent reason (EQ2), or to fight over the same **** yet again (WoW). If you're going to have that, you also need to have mechanisms to control the "l33t d00ds" of the world. I'm already seeing comments from outraged **** that are mad you can't fully loot an opponent's corpse, and proclaiming every game that doesn't allow that to be "trash". I'm ok with certain limitations on where I can go if it means I don't have to put up with pointless gank killing in areas I can go.

The megaserver also contributes to this, because there can only be one ruleset. You can't have both pvp and non-pvp servers. I'm ok with that, too.

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 Post subject: Re: Elder Scrolls Online
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 6:19 am 
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Diamondeye wrote:
You won't get to go adventure in provinces not belonging to other alliances.
Is that what you meant to type? Because the other way doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

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 Post subject: Re: Elder Scrolls Online
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 8:13 am 
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Shelgeyr wrote:
Diamondeye wrote:
You won't get to go adventure in provinces not belonging to other alliances.
Is that what you meant to type? Because the other way doesn't make a whole lot of sense.


Uh yes, thanks. :oops:

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 Post subject: Re: Elder Scrolls Online
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 9:22 am 
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It amazes me, to be honest, that everyone keeps repeating the mistakes that ruined AO's faction system at the start. It took AO less than a month to figure out that the factions needed to be able to communicate, group when they wanted, and fight when they wanted.

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 Post subject: Re: Elder Scrolls Online
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 11:54 am 
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Khross wrote:
It amazes me, to be honest, that everyone keeps repeating the mistakes that ruined AO's faction system at the start. It took AO less than a month to figure out that the factions needed to be able to communicate, group when they wanted, and fight when they wanted.

Star Citizen. Just sayin'. They're using reputation based PvP without any explicit factions.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 11:59 am 
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Unless they do something drastically new and interesting for MMOs, meh. I don't see that happening. Tired of hunting down 20 bear asses.

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 Post subject: Re: Elder Scrolls Online
PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 9:37 am 
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Corolinth wrote:
Diamondeye wrote:
You won't get to go adventure in provinces not belonging to other alliances.

Well, there goes my interest in the game. Once PvP factions dictate where I can and can't go, I'm done.


Just an update: You're in luck.

It seems now that once you hit level 50, you will be able to go to the other faction's areas in some sort of non-pvp mode. You can do either faction first, then you unlock the other. There's supposed to be greater rewards there. I'm a little unclear on if you even SEE other faction members or what during this; it may be related to the whole "Molag Bal drags the world into Coldharbor" thing.

In other news, it also seems that rather than "raids" there will be "adventure zones", which will have group and raid content; the raid content will be 16-man. As of right now they're saying it "might" be instanced. To me, that says "it will be" because the hardcore raid crowd, unsurprisingly, is totally freaking out over a statement that there won't be "Raids".

I'm unclear how much of this is the semantic change from "raid" to "Adventure zone" and people just assuming it's watered down, and how much is carryover from world boss fights in GW2, anger at the chaos of which seems to be driving a lot of the hardcore fears.

I can certainly understand the desire for instanced raids rather than "world boss only" raids, although ZOS did say there's be a warning before you entered 16-man content area with your 4-man group (those sizes tentative AFAIK), but PAX East is this weekend and a lot more details can be had there; most of the freakout is from quotes from a 2-day press event, from which such exemplary outlets of journalistic accuracy as IGN came back with one out-of-context quote and caused the initial freakout.

Anyhow, Paul Sage did already say that the raid-content "may" be instanced, so I think they were leaning that way anyhow. After this outcry, I think they most likely will end up that way. There was massive outcry from Elder Scrolls fans over a lack of real 1st-person view a la Skyrim, and that got put in.

Hilariously, the hardcore crowd is now arguing they're being "ignored" and "neglected" even though the content is there and the company is already talking about instancing it, and ***** that creation of the 1st person view is the reason (at least some of them). While I won't claim to know much about the technical issues of game design, I find it a little hard to believe that the same people would work on combat animations as would design instances. Might be some overlap on mob animations but.. regardless, the argument seems to be "they are neglecting a huge part of the community!"

Weeeelllllll.... A) they listened to the people that wanted 1st person, so that bodes well for them listening to the hardcores, and they should be thrilled they included it, and B) if you don't want them to neglect your part of the community and are arguing its all about player retention, then don't argue against them putting in a feature that another large part of the community wants.

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 Post subject: Re: Elder Scrolls Online
PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 8:30 pm 
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Release pushed back 5-6 months now, and it will be playable on consoles.

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 Post subject: Re: Elder Scrolls Online
PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 7:48 pm 
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I haven't gotten into beta, but my brother has. So I'll at least get to play it before it comes out to know if it will be worth playing(to me) or not. Pretty exciting.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 3:21 am 
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I technically am into beta, but just for one event, and I can't download the client fast enough to be ready in time, nor am I off work if I could sooooo....

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 10:40 am 
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I read the "6:00 PM to 9:00 PM" part but missed the "EDT" part of the invite, so by the time I jumped in - the event was mostly over. I had just enough time to get in a couple of fights.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 5:41 pm 
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Well, at least you'll get credit for being on. My crappy internet is still downloading the client and probably will be until this time tomorrow. I'm doing it only in the hope that next time I get an invite, or when the game comes out, I'll only have to patch.

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 Post subject: Re: Elder Scrolls Online
PostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2013 2:42 pm 
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Here’s an update on the state of the game. A lot has happened and been revealed since this thread was started, including some fairly significant changes. If I’m going back too far or being too elementary I apologize; I just don’t want to leave anything out for those that haven’t been following things much. Also, everything below is “to the best of my knowledge”; new information has been coming out more and more rapidly so anything I missed or which is outdated and someone knows about, please correct it.

First, and most important, there will be an XBOX 1 and a PS4 version. To my understanding they will be separate from the PC game, although I’m not sure they will be separate from each other. This was announced along with a pushback of release to approximately Q3 2014. The console versions don’t concern me one way or another, but the pushback, IMO, was good as the game is progressing through closed beta and I’m comfortable that they’re going to use the time wisely.

Next, an overview of some things I have learned regarding where this game will fit. Matt Frior has explicitly stated “we are not trying to compete with WoW at what WoW does best.”

What this means, in context, is that ESO is going to try to innovate and be different to a degree, but it is not going to completely break the mold of previous MMOs.

This appears to be driven by two things. One: This is a high-budget game; the most frequent investment figure I have seen is $300 million. Therefore, they have a needle to thread. They can’t duplicate WoW, either in systems or in the nature of the challenges; that hasn’t really worked out well for anyone else because it means just trying to be WoW all over again and then people might as well just play WoW. They need to do things in a new and different way. On the other hand, they can’t just go charging into the wild unknown either, as that’s too much risk that they might be totally wrong with a $300 million investment.

Therefore, this game will be sort of a prototype; keeping a lot of what we already know, and duplicating DAoC more than anything else (in the PVP aspect) but providing a lot of new stuff laid on top of that. By new, I don’t mean necessarily “no game ever did it before”, but rather stuff that hasn’t been seen much up till now and will be new to a major title.

The other needle to be threaded is that of the MMO vs. Elder Scrolls. This has been an ongoing topic of controversy in the community, driven heavily by fanatics on both sides, many of whom don’t seem to get that large numbers of people have played both types of games and like aspects of both. On the “Elder Scrolls” side, there is a certain contingent that don’t get that a lot of things from TES can’t be put in an MMO unless you’re making a hardcore pvp niche game. Pickpocketing other players is a major one; there is quite the crowd that is really into pickpocketing.

The other side is the hardcore progression MMO crowd that keeps insisting this is an MMO and that any deviation from the last 15 years of MMO staple gameplay in order to stay true to the Elder Scrolls is bad, and the only aspects that are important to keep are cosmetic/lore things.

Neither position is tenable, and the controversy is quite overblown because a great deal of what either side wants doesn’t impact the other at all. I tend to lean towards the “stay true to the setting” side, but most of what the MMO crowd is really concerned about is their endgame raiding which.. isn’t something that appears in single player games in the first place.

There was a major blowup earlier this year when it was reported that there “wouldn’t be raids”, there would be “adventure zones”, and they “might be instanced”. The hardcore community instantly took this to mean “no endgame content, just world bosses” and about pooped itself. Fortunately it was right before PAX East, and it has become clear at this point that A) there will be raids, ZOS, just calls them “adventure zones” and B) that they won’t be the same as WoW raids, although how they differ is not clear yet.

This did have a positive effect on the community on the long run, however. Prior to this, community websites were dominated by a hardcore raider moderation staff. A lot of them left in a huff when they either thought they were getting no endgame, or realized that the raid content wouldn’t be what they are used to, and the websites seem to be a lot more evenly moderated now, with RPers, casuals, PVPers, and hardcores all represented.

In fact, in general the quality of community discussion has improved steadily, mainly because more information is coming out and now people are talking about the game as it is, rather than trying to design the game themselves on the internet and ***** that everyone else is ruining it.

All that said, on to the specifics. First, the whole “You can’t go to enemy faction territory” thing is gone. At level 50, you can do one faction, then the other, and explore them fully. They are calling this 50+ and 50++ content, and it ties into the fact that there will be a lot of skill lines left to unlock at 50. What this will be like is unclear exactly; for example I don’t know if you will see enemy players, although even if you do there won’t be pvp outside Cyrodill.

Second, the original 6 classes have been changed to just 4. The Warden, and the unnamed 6th class have been scrapped. Originally, it seemed they were going for an offensive and a defensive option for the Fighter, Mage, and Thief of traditional TES lore, but now with 4 it seems like they have a Fighter (Dragonknight) Cleric (Templar) Thief (Nightblade) and Sorcerer (Mage)thing going on.

The classes mainly serve to give you 3 class skill lines. All of the class skill lines have been released, as have those for the 6 weapon styles. The weapons styles are dual wield, weapon and shield, 2-handed, archery, destruction staff, and restoration staff. The restoration staff is a way to be a healer (it, and the destruction staff, have an entire skill line of things they do; they don’t just shoot single spells out like in Skyrim). The Templar also heals, and the Sorcerer has at least one method of healing, so there’s more than one way to skin that cat.

What you’ll basically do, in addition to having your basic and power attacks and block and bash on the mouse, is have 6 hotkeys of abilities. You can have 2 swappable loadouts of these, which can also have different weapons associated with them. This is what’s htswappable in combat. You have to be out of combat to swap what’s in each loadout. The idea is to “deck-build”, so you can have a bow and melee loadout, or a stealth and straight-up loadout, or PVE and PVP, or DPS and Healing or.. you get the picture.

Each skill line will have active and passive skills. Weapon skill trees will use Stamina (except the 2 staffs; they use Magic) and Class skill lines will use Magic.

You’ll be easily able to hybridize in the traditional TES sense of making battlemages, or spellswords, or whatever. What’s unclear is how effective hybrids between the traditional MMO healer-tank-DPS trinity will be. Evidence from ZOS’s one major discussion of it indicates that they will be viable, although not to quite the degree some people want (or fear).

Combat is going to include a lot of multiple enemies, and the tank is simply not going to be able to sweep them all up and hold agro on them – in fact, there is only one known taunt in the game right now.

Therefore, it appears that there will be a degree of hybridization, as DPS and healers will have to deal with adds attacking them. Those adds will be balanced against DPS and healers, not tank defense, so they will be do-able, but what that does seem to mean is that going total glass-cannon DPS, or being a healer that can’t do anything but heal will be risky, since “balanced” means “a reasonable threat”.

Essentially, tanks are going to have to pay some attention to damage dealing rather than being the low-damage punching bag that the mob inexplicably focuses on, since there will be little taunt. Tanks also won’t necessarily be in heavy armor because blocking and dodging are manually done. Much of defense is player skill, not probability. Healers and DPS will need to pay some attention to defense in order to survive adds that the tank can’t clean up.

What this says to me is that while true hybrids won’t really be in the game, or at least will be really hard to pull off, there will be hybrids in the sense that there will be lots of room to make your tank, DPS, or healer in your own way, and putting some emphasis on the other roles will be useful.

This is what I was talking about with the game pushing forward with innovation, but not going hog wild with it. It’s very much a trinity-based game, but it is not “enforcing” a trinity on the player strictly. There is lots of room to make your tank, DPS or healer your own way.

Also, if you want to PVP whatever build you use will need to work there too, and since players are notoriously hard to “tank”, hybridization will be present there. They are also paying attention to making sure healers get rewarded in PVP, not just damage dealers.

Most of the other information is in the details of skill lines, classes, races and such which is filtering out to the community at a fairly steady pace. Things are looking good.

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 Post subject: Re: Elder Scrolls Online
PostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2013 11:57 pm 
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It *sounds* interesting. What I'd like to know is if they are foregoing any development on first-person models/wielding for the weapons. If so, then that would be my personal complaint and their true detachment from the series.

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 Post subject: Re: Elder Scrolls Online
PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 1:13 am 
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Originally, they were not. The TES portion of the community, however, demanded that en masse, and Skyrim-style 1st-person view is in the game, complete with animations for weapons and abilities. It's a done deal; the E3 gameplay demo video shows extensive fighting from this perspective.

When initially announced, this feature was met with much wailing and gnashing of teeth fromt he hardcore crowd, who claimed it was useless, and were offended that they might have to play alongside people using it and who were therefore "worse" and that resources had been "wasted" on it. Aside from the self-centeredness and elitism, you could tell which ones hadn't played Skyrim, since you basically have to have it for archery even if you don't like using it otherwise. The ones that had never played Skyrim couldn't get their heads around having to aim in an MMO.

I've gathered up some more factoids to post tomorrow evening.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 1:04 pm 
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So its going to be twitch based? Bleh.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 4:15 pm 
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Müs wrote:
So its going to be twitch based? Bleh.

Not to the same degree an FPS is. More similar to Skyrim. Archery, for example, doesn't require aiming as precise as an FPS, but it does require that you aim. This is a great thing. It takes away theability to determine the"best" build for cookie cutter play from averages. There's no easy way to separate player factors from game factors easily. It also keeps people looking at the world instead of the (minimal) interface.

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 Post subject: Re: Elder Scrolls Online
PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 8:11 pm 
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It also keeps people looking at the world instead of the (minimal) interface.


Hell. To. The. Yes.

I hate looking at anything but the action in front of me in an mmo. All require looking at cooldown buttons, debuffs in another area of the screen, your own health and power in another area; I hate it all.

Wow's weak auras mod helps, but it isn't perfect. But it's better than anything else in any other mmo.

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 Post subject: Re: Elder Scrolls Online
PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 10:16 pm 
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Well, there are no cooldowns (or at least, very few and none that anyone knows of.) Minimal interface is a stated design goal.

Raids will be 24 people. Originally it was going to be 16, but it was changed to 24. No smaller-sized raid has been stated, but I would not be surprised to see 12 or 16 person raids eventually as well.

There will be 16 dungeons at launch. 6 of them will also be "master dungeons." These are not the same as the "adventure zones", which are raids (but also include group content, or so I understand). The "master dungeons" are not merely harder dungeons, they continue each dungeon's storyline, and open up new areas.

You can join up to 5 guilds, and cross-faction guilds are in, although I'm not sure in what fashion. Trade will be accomplished through guilds, although I'm not totally clear how this will be done. There will not (thankfully) be a WoW-style world auction house where your purchases teleport to your mailbox.

Crime will not be fully implemented at launch (which means you can basically steal everything) but Thief and Assassin guild quest lines will be added, as will the crime system. Mages and Fighters will be in at launch. Each guild will give you another skill line to develop.

Character appearance customization will be similar to or better than Skyrim. In particular, you can make fat characters if you want.

There will be no PVP-specific gear; you'll PVP in whatever you have. Lower-level characters will be brought to level 50 in stats (health, stamina, magic) in pvp, but not in any other respect to prevent curbstomps. There will be siege engines for taking keeps.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 8:18 am 
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The Dancing Cat
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Does this mean that blocking will revert back to the days of Bloodmoon/Tribunal and Morrowind? Aka you can't just mash the "block" key but actually have to catch the incoming blow? Cause that was badass in sword-fights.

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 Post subject: Re: Elder Scrolls Online
PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 11:15 am 
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Commence Primary Ignition
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I'm not quite sure how you mean. From what I saw in the video, it will be basically like Skyrim's blocking. You will be able to block and bash with any weapon or combo thoug, so dual wield will allow blocking. Your standard attack will just alternate weapons; power attack will be something like the dual power attack in Skyrim, as I understand it.

One of the dual wield abilities is a thrown dagger that both snares and interrupts, which is really cool. I am debating 2-handers vs. dual wield, and that ability is sooooo tempting.

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