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PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 2:42 am 
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So they're putting their eggs in the "PvP is the 'Endgame'" basket?

That's not going to sell well. What's in it for people like me that despise MMO PvP?

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 8:32 am 
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Since Chris Roberts is my Master Now, I don't really have a dog in this fight (mmm... dogfighting...). However at least it sounds like They are trying to be different, rather than the futility of trying to out WoW WoW. I guess the question is then, "does the community really want different?" I really don't know.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 9:05 am 
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I have a really hard time thinking of "endgame PvP" as anything other than the MMO version of reality TV.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 10:21 am 
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If their entire endgame plan is "PvP".. well..

/epicfail


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 12:07 pm 
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Müs wrote:
So they're putting their eggs in the "PvP is the 'Endgame'" basket?

That's not going to sell well. What's in it for people like me that despise MMO PvP?

What about it? Everyone isn't going to like every game. There's going to be raiding too, it just wont be the be-all and end all of the endgame. They're going with the DAoC model of PVP which wss pretty successful.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 12:09 pm 
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Midgen wrote:
If their entire endgame plan is "PvP".. well..

/epicfail

Its not their entire endgame and even if it were, 2 words: EVE Online. 10 years old with the endgame and most of the rest of it being PVP.

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 Post subject: Re: Elder Scrolls Online
PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 4:56 pm 
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Sure but EVE and its mechanics are nothing like this game. They're totally incomparable.


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 Post subject: Re: Elder Scrolls Online
PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 6:59 pm 
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Lenas wrote:
Sure but EVE and its mechanics are nothing like this game. They're totally incomparable.


They're both MMOs, and dislike of PVP has nothing to do with game mechanics and everything to do with the other people PVPing. EVE is therefore pretty much completely comparable because it survives and thrives not only emphasizing PVP, but allowing the absolute worst practices as normal mechanics - both in actual combat and the "PVP" of scamming, corp betrayals, and so forth.

The reason this works is that PVP is meaningful in EVE - death can mean the loss of an expensive ship (either absolutely, or in terms of the owner's budget), a pod, even skill training time if a clone wasn't upgraded. It has wider consequences too; control of game resources and such.

While ESO is clearly not going for that level of intensity, it has a major source of world PVP that has actual consequences - keeps are central to the trade system, some crafting resources are located in Cyrodill, and it is not just the "HEY! LET'S YOU AND ME FIGHT!" PVP of so many other games. WoW either segregated it into BGs where everyone was always matched up, or else it was on a PVP server where there wasn't much real control to be gained and was just a gankfest.

ESO is building on the DAoC model, which was successful, and fulfills an established demand for a fantasy MMO (Star Citizen clearly fills the sci fi demand) with PVP that's less extreme than the level of EVE/other not-EVE games that go super-intense. When I say it's part of the "endgame" I'm referring to it's AvA aspects rather than simply the individual fighting between players. That's an entire portion of the MMO crowd that otherwise goes untapped while most MMOs are trying to satisfy the content locusts and hordes of incompetent raid leaders out there (not that every raid leader is incompetent, but most MMOs have far too many guilds and far too many people leading raids, and most of them have no business being in charge of anything.)

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 8:04 pm 
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I don't care how much you love PvP, in a Fantasy MMO world, if smashing your buddy's face is the only content available after you hit max level...

Just ask the SWTOR developers

/epicfail


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 9:40 pm 
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Midgen wrote:
I don't care how much you love PvP, in a Fantasy MMO world, if smashing your buddy's face is the only content available after you hit max level...

Just ask the SWTOR developers

/epicfail


Again, it's a major component of the endgame, not the "only content". There is endgame raiding (although they call it something else). When I said PVP is the "real endgame" I was pointing out, somewhat obliquely, that catering to the content locusts is not the main focus of the endgame. PVE endgame will be there, it just won't be dominating the game.

It also won't be a /epicfail, so you can stop oversimplifying, especially since this is the first time I've heard SWTOR and PVP mentioned together with any sort of significance.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 28, 2013 1:52 am 
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I think SWTOR is a decent comparison, in general terms. The mini-raid-not-really-raids & pvp are it after you finish the story (unless you want to do an alt).

The one thing that TESO seems to have that might stretch its life beyond what SWTOR had is the sandbox (vs. the rails of SWTOR). It remains to be seen how much quest content there is, but I do have to wonder if TESO will be shriveling up within six months to a year after release.

I like Elder Scrolls stuff, but I'm a lot more interested in a quality single player version, than what the MMO seems to be aiming towards.


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 Post subject: Re: Elder Scrolls Online
PostPosted: Thu Nov 28, 2013 10:18 am 
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ESO does not have (as far as we know) "mini-raids". They aren't called raids to differentiate from WoW, which Matt Frior has stated they are not trying to compete with at being WoW. This is (alledgedly) backed up by a different tactical approach being needed to beat them; mainly that tanking will be focused on the main enemy, but adds will be common and will have to be dealt with by nontanks directly, and will be balanced to that role. It wont be practical for the tank to grab them. (Obviously the nuances of this approach are a whole additional discussion).

The "adventure zones", howeverare the dame size (24 vs 25 person) as full size WoW raids, and just as difficult (alledgedly).

If this turns out not to be true, there will obviously be problems, but assuming they provide what they say they're going to, it won't. Raiders will just have to get used to not having a monopoly on all the best gear, and added content not being focused exclusively on raiding.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2013 5:54 pm 
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Lots of people like pvp, so I wouldn't say it's "epic fail."

I will say, if PVP is given more attention than a side diversion (like in WoW or SWTOR)... I won't play the game. I'd actually prefer a game more like EQ when it comes to PVP - meaning there is absolutely no incentive to PVP ever if you don't choose to play on a PVP server.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 7:23 pm 
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I noticed this on dulfy's site while I was persuing SWTOR stuff... Thought I'd share.

ESO Deshaan Skyshards Guide
http://dulfy.net/2014/03/26/eso-deshaan ... rds-guide/


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