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 Post subject: Cataclysm
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 2:18 pm 
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Since this thread will eventually destroy the original WotLK, I thought we might as well get started.

Post any updates related strictly to this pack, or the 4.0 patch. All 3.x should go in WotLK.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 2:46 pm 
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I support this idea. Screeling is going to be pissed and it's glorious.


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 Post subject: Re: Cataclysm
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 3:06 pm 
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All secondary gear stats are going to be removed. Discuss!


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 Post subject: Re: Cataclysm
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 3:10 pm 
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Darkroland wrote:
All secondary gear stats are going to be removed. Discuss!



That, combined with the change to hunter mechanics, make me wonder how they're going to do this, mechanically. I applaud it as a design decision, but the job of retroactively going through and updating gear to be appropriately designed for the classes that currently wear it will be a gargantuan undertaking. I remain skeptical that they can pull this off, and believe they will end up doing far less than they initially discussed.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 3:14 pm 
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So crit, hit, haste, arm pent, spell power etc are being removed? Are they going to go through stats? How will the possibly accmplish this?

There would need to be significant talent changes.

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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 3:31 pm 
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Rafael wrote:
So crit, hit, haste, arm pent, spell power etc are being removed? Are they going to go through stats? How will the possibly accmplish this?

There would need to be significant talent changes.



Couple that with significant class mechanical changes. For example:

They say they are removing "Mana" from hunters, and giving hunters a "Focus" bar, like their pets. Focus is not affected by intelligence, it's more like a rogue's energy bar, although it recharges more slowly.

Almost all hunter gear has intellect on it. Hunters have a 3-point talent selection very early in the Marksman tree that allows them to apply intellect to attack power, that all hunters end up taking.

The only easy way to retroactively make this work, without screwing over enhancement shaman who use the same gear, is to automatically give all hunters Intellect to Attack Power, and perhaps have it apply to some secondary statistic (in the background) as well, like crit or hit rating, and remove the talent...then they wouldn't need to change the gear, because all hunters would still want the intellect on their items.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 3:37 pm 
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I'm almost positive crit is staying. I know armor pen is going, though. Attack power and spell power are both gone.

They are redoing all talent trees. Basically, they want to get rid of talents that increase damage by X amount and replace them with more utility type stuff like "x ability has a chance to stun the target." Each tree will have bonuses depending on how many points you put into each tree. I remember when I was at Blizzcon, I saw a presentation slide that showed rogue talent trees. The combat tree had a lot of points into it and at the bottom of each tree, there were three bonuses. The first increased DPS by a percentage(I think the slide had 50+ plus talents in the combat tree and the DPS was increase by 90 something percent for the first tier, it increased either crit or hit with the second tier by 5% and the last tier was to activate the new Mastery stat they are going to put on gear. Combat's mastery stat gave armor penetration).

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 4:40 pm 
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Cataclysm gear stats
Unless I'm mistaken, the Cata gear stats will break down like this:
Melee: Hit, Crit, Haste, Expertise, Mastery
Ranged: Hit, Crit, Haste, Mastery
Caster: Hit, Crit, Haste, Mastery
Healer: Spirit, Crit, Haste, Mastery

You are not mistaken. Everyone also gets stamina, armor, and their primary stat (Str, Int or Agi). Resilience and Spell Pen will continue to be PvP stats. This is not set in stone either. Cataclysm isn't finished.

Tanks will also have block (but not block value), dodge, parry and perhaps armor. It isn't super important how many stats everyone has. Melee for example need hit and expertise, but casters need more hit. It only gets to be a problem if for example you can't piece together a set that has all the stats you need in the amounts you want. Many tanks for example will happily sacrifice hit and expertise for more armor and stamina.

So, I'm guessing the current plan is to get rid of the Spirit > Other Stat talents completely?
It's too early to tell. It would be nice to get rid of them for say mages and warlocks given that their gear generally won't have Spirit. We can't get rid of conversion talents completely. For example, Enhancement and Retribution will need some way to derive spell power from attack power and need a way to get mana back without Int or Spirit. (Source)

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 7:59 pm 
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I'm fine with them removing attack power. The item designers are retarded anyway, and have created far too many AP, Agi items over Str, Crit items.

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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 5:01 am 
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Rafael wrote:
I'm fine with them removing attack power. The item designers are retarded anyway, and have created far too many AP, Agi items over Str, Crit items.


Except when they create an AGI/AP item, they are designing it for rogues/enhance shamans/hunters. Just because you don't like seeing items for those classes doesn't mean it shouldn't be there.

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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 9:06 am 
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Raltar wrote:
Rafael wrote:
I'm fine with them removing attack power. The item designers are retarded anyway, and have created far too many AP, Agi items over Str, Crit items.


Except when they create an AGI/AP item, they are designing it for rogues/enhance shamans/hunters. Just because you don't like seeing items for those classes doesn't mean it shouldn't be there.


Except you're wrong and being ignorant. I'm not asking them remove items for Agi classes. I'm asking them to add items that have str for plate melee; when WotLK was released, there was a glut of jewelry (particularly neck pieces) for agi classes but none for str.

I am positing that restructuring how items increases stats will eliminate this oversight. I am not suggesting these items don't need to exist.

In summary, you are shortsighted and precieve people as whiny, greedy and having a sense of entitlement, most likely because those are actually your primary characteristics.

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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 12:30 pm 
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Rafael wrote:
Except you're wrong and being ignorant...In summary, you are shortsighted and precieve people as whiny, greedy and having a sense of entitlement, most likely because those are actually your primary characteristics.



Huh. Is this new forum going to need a controversial label? Having a bad day, Raf? You know I gotta warn you for flaming here, right?

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 12:55 pm 
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Not a bad day, butnot gonna put up with stupid strawmen arguments about things no-one said in the first place.

Could be intentional illiteracy, but I have my doubts either way.

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